Am I supposed to believe this is his profile photo?
R U serious Glee.
I saw some Kurtofsky fans talking about my AfterEllen/AfterElton Glee recaps, and someone called me a “diehard Klainer” to explain why I “hate” their ship.
The thing is, not only am I not a “Klainer,” my feelings about the Kurtofsky pairing have nothing to do with liking one couple more than another.
Believe me, I know what it feels like to ship a pairing so hard it makes you want to die, and I have none of those feelings about Kurt and Blaine, even though I like them a lot. But other than the fact that I can’t stand seeing Kurt get hurt, I really don’t have strong feelings about them staying together. On Glee, I only have a strong emotional connection to Brittany and Santana as a couple, even though I like and cheer on a number of other pairings, including Blaine and Kurt.
Of course, now I’m going to hear from the Klainers instead of just the Kurt/Dave shippers, LOL.
Now, about Kurt and Dave.
I love most of what Glee is doing with Dave’s character and storyline. I think Max Adler is an incredible, amazing actor and I have been trying to get an interview with him for a year now. He blows me away.
If it was just about two people in real life, any relationship they might have would be none of my business.
If one or both of them was my friend or family member, then it would be my business to an extent, and at that point, all I’d want to know is if they had truly processed their past and were engaging in this relationship in a healthy way.
BUT THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE. It’s a show that, for better or worse, ties itself to messages.
THESE ARE NOT REAL PEOPLE. They are characters, deliberately created and manipulated to tell stories, to entertain, and to educate.
BECAUSE this isn’t real life and they’re not real people, we can’t simply say, we love Dave and want him to be happy and we think they’d be good together and could handle their past if they tried, etc. etc., because those are the criteria by which we evaluate REAL PEOPLE.
Shows are works of deliberate creation, and we need to evaluate them by that standard.
And I believe that no matter how it was handled, Kurt and Dave having a romantic relationship during the timeline of this show would send a terrible, horrible message that deep at the heart of abuse is attraction and even love.
It reinforces all kinds of dysfunctional emotional dynamics that we see all around us every day, from the “he teases you because he likes you” crap we dish out to little girls to “Luke and Laura”/bodice ripper storylines where men rape because they’re carried away with love and passion instead of hate and a desire to control, to women who stay with abusive partners because they follow up their abuse with a storm of remorse and dozens of roses.
So when I say I don’t want to see Kurt and Karofsky together, it’s not a shipper war. It’s not because I like Klaine so much I have lost my perspective. It’s not a preference, and it’s not minor.
It’s because I think it’s a terrible message to send on a cultural level, EVEN IF it might be interesting dramatically and EVEN IF such a thing might somehow be healthy in a real life scenario with real people.
And while it might appear that means I’m judging those who ship Kurtofsky and saying you don’t care about the message, or about abusive relationships, that’s only true on the cultural level. Certainly in your own minds, even in mine, it’s possible to envision a way those two could be together and it not be sick or bad for either of them.
But on this television show, I don’t believe such a thing is possible, because television shows operate on the cultural level, however much we take them into our hearts and imaginations.
Additionally, I have observed that a few rabid Kurtofsky shippers who have communicated with me are very, very young, and seem to be responding to the exact emotional dynamic that is troubling me — they are finding the idea of your abuser being secretly in love with you emotionally resonant.
I don’t want to be the imagination police, and certainly there are things we do in our imaginations we’d never want to do in real life, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t ever look at, question, or analyze our own emotional reactions. They can lay down pathways in our responses that sometimes get us into real life trouble.
So please don’t dismiss my negative comments about Kurtofsky as being about some silly ship rivalry. You may not agree with me, but my desire not to see Glee go down that road does not come from a frivolous or unconsidered place in me.
Chloe. I am in love with your tags.
There is no other suitable name for them.
I’m suitably amused.
It’s not an absurd plot twist that Karofsky would harbor feelings for Kurt—after all, it was Kurt who first made Karofsky challenge his own sexuality. But it’s absurd that Karofsky would think secret messages delivered in a gorilla outfit and an out-of-the-blue admission of his love would sway Kurt from Blaine. The whole thing came across as vaguely stalker-ish on Karofsky’s part, and contrived on the part of the show.
I could handle Kurt and Karofsky making peace, Kurt being a good person and helping Karofsky, and then everything fading out.
But Karofsky followed Kurt around anonymously. Kurt had his guard down. So much could have happened, all of which makes me sick to my stomach in a way that only Kurtofsky situations seem to be able to induce.
Can we just… consider that for a moment? The fact that the guy who harassed, sexually assaulted, physically assaulted, verbally tortured, emotionally tortured Kurt, the guy who threatened his life and drove Kurt out of his school completely crossed myriad lines once again and, were Kurt a more fragile person— as he would have every right to be—, this would have completely triggered that which he had just overcome? Were Kurt more easily triggered, this would have caused him to relive so, so much that was excruciating for us to watch the first time.
I understand Karofsky feels indebted to Kurt now, but there are boundaries. You don’t thank the person you tormented by stalking them in a gorilla suit, emotionally manipulating them, and then getting mad when they do not reciprocate your feelings. You don’t act on your romantic feelings, not after all you’ve done to them. You accept that your actions make anything more than acquaintanceship inappropriate, that you are not entitled to absolutely anything from that person, and that the fact that the person in question is so kind as to talk to you, let alone help you, after all you’ve done to them in no way erases what you’ve done or the lines that cannot be crossed.
And you sure as hell do not cross those lines.
yes. allllllll of this. and it’s made even worse so by the fact that the writers are excusing this frightening behavior by hiding it behind some sort of love~ proclamation and having kurt basically give him a free pass because of his woobie man!pain.
this is a terrible, terrible message for glee to be sending, how do they not see that? D:
…do the writers not realize how incredibly creepy all that behavior is, coming from Karofsky and given his history with Kurt?
Kurt is nice, so he’s giving Karofsky the time of day and engaging in conversation with him.
But he’s under NO OBLIGATION to acknowledge Karofsky, care about his pain, or anything. This whole scene just sends a “stalking is love” or “stalking is friendship” kind of vibe that’s just gross.
Plus? The worst part is I think the writer’s are completely obvious to the implications this scene has, because they wrote the scene to be a form of closure from Karofsky’s perspective. Kurt’s perspective does not enter into this, and is not the important thing, the way the writers are framing this situation.
You know, I was fine with how we’d left Karofsky in 3x05. He’d grown and matured and was doing better at accepting himself and building a life that was based on kindness and not bullying.
Now, even though the writers don’t realize it, Karofsky’s essentially back to the same behavior, but motivated by “friendship” and “love” and not bullying.
But it is bullying, effectively, because it’s stalking. Even if the perpetrator doesn’t think he’s doing it, and even if Kurt doesn’t see it that way (as far as we know).
Karofsky (and the writers) need to learn that the best way to ‘redeem’ a former bully is to have him apologize and then leave the victim’s life, because he owes the victim NOTHING. Any further interaction, even with the intent to be motivated by kindness and friendship, just makes things worse from the victim’s perspective because once you’ve broken someone’s trust (or never gave them to reason to develop it in the first place) you can NEVER regain it fully.
Karofsky will never be redeemed in my eyes if he doesn’t understand how to respect the feelings of the person he bullied, and if he doesn’t take responsibility for his actions by recognizing that no matter how much of a ‘good’ person he becomes, he can only maintain a friendship with Kurt to the extent that Kurt wants, not what he (Karofsky) desires.
LOL but what is a big episode? I bet he’s joined the Glee club at his newest school, BECAUSE IT’S OBVIOUSLY OKAY TO DO IT THERE
I bet Karofsky is the new lead singer of Aural Intensity.
But will he kiss it against its will?
Dot just tweeted about episode 3.14 being an “important episode” and a “rollercoaster” so I’m very much wondering if Karofsky will factor into it. And if 3.14 is regionals, which seems likely because 3.12 and 3.13 are not regionals and we got that spoiler a while ago mentioning regionals, I could certainly see it.
Some brief Sebastian/Karofsky…Sebofsky?…thoughts that I’m sure no one on my dash wants to read. But just addressing convenience shipping and why I think they would be TERRIBLE together.
I also think that narratively, it would not fit in with the redemptive arc they’re pretty clearly trying to give Karofsky. Dating someone like Sebastian would not show that he’s good and has changed.
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From an AE comment:
So the new guy is going after Blaine, and he becomes a majorly recurring thorn in their side, LIKE A BIG CHUNK OF THE SEASON, and Kurt reconnects with Karofsky in their first reunion meeting during the same episode, for what’s going to be the next part of their continued relationship for the rest of the year. Kurt is going to go to this gay bar because after seeing Sebastian and Blaine, he’s back to feeling insecure about never being pursued, and feeling like no one ever really wants him. So of course, he encounters Dave…
Glee loves seeing Kurt cry- I could entirely see them going with this plotline. I can only hope that if they do this, Kurt will actually get hit on by a ton of guys like he should be, and Glee won’t continue with its unrelenting mission to convince viewers that no one finds Kurt attractive. Like, in a homophobic high school I could see that, but in a gay bar? No fuckin way, Glee.
Glee loves seeing Kurt cry- I could entirely see them going with this plotline. I can only hope that if they do this, Kurt will actually get hit on by a ton of guys like he should be, and Glee won’t continue with its unrelenting mission to convince viewers that no one finds Kurt attractive. Like, in a homophobic high school I could see that, but in a gay bar?
No fuckin way, Glee.
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